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Constiinta si Theory of Everything

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mircea_p:

--- Citat din: 07Marius din Noiembrie 27, 2012, 08:18:23 p.m. ---
--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 27, 2012, 05:34:23 p.m. ---Am depasit nivelul de pur SF. Dar nu am depasit cea ce  imaginatia poate imagina. Din fericire.  Ai citit "ultima intrebare" (sau poate "Intrebarea finala") a lui Asimov?

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Nu. Dar avem un precedent: Jules Verne.

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Vrei sa zici, un precedent la "realitatea depaseste imaginatia"?
Sigur, oarecum. Ne-a incantat copilaria. Cred ca asta e cea mai mare realizare.
De fapt sant lucruri pe care nu cred  ca le-a imaginat nici un autor SF.
Cum ar fi Internetul si Google. Sigur, au scris de  supercomputere care stiu raspunsul la orice intrebare si baze de date "intr-un singur cristal" dar parca nu e acelasi lucru.

In privinta robotilor eu personal nu vad conexiunea cu "constiinta" artificiala. Daca e vorba sa producem "roboti", adica niste unelte care sa inlocuiasca oamenii la joburi neplacute sau nedorite, ultimul lucru pe care l-am dori la ei ar fi sa aiba o inteligenta de tip "uman".
Care ar fi diferenta intre roboti si sclavi, an cazul asta?

07Marius:

--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 27, 2012, 11:21:34 p.m. ---In privinta robotilor eu personal nu vad conexiunea cu "constiinta" artificiala. Daca e vorba sa producem "roboti", adica niste unelte care sa inlocuiasca oamenii la joburi neplacute sau nedorite, ultimul lucru pe care l-am dori la ei ar fi sa aiba o inteligenta de tip "uman".
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Dimpotriva. Se fac eforturi f. mari ca robotii sa fie cat mai umani.
Se comercializeaza deja...
At 25 cm in height and weighing 1.5 kg, the robot "is almost a living being. It has the same activity as a living being, it has its own autonomy and conscience", he said.It also has a series of "basic needs, like nourishment and security, and other more advanced ones, like love, recognition, freedom and, above all, enjoying itself and getting along well".
In contrast to the available robots developed till date, its makeup does not consist of "a collection of limited actions or programmed responses. It's dynamic, it has its own life and, at times, it's unpredictable," said AISoy 1's designer.

The robot is capable of learning from experience and modifying "its behaviour, values and actions it can undertake at specific times," he said."If you take two AISoy 1's and leave them in two different families, within two months they will be totally different because they will have had different experiences," said Garcia. (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-07-30/news/27623571_1_first-robot-domestic-robot-spanish-firm)

Un alt articol interesant pe marginea subiectului:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14886421


--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 27, 2012, 11:21:34 p.m. ---Care ar fi diferenta intre roboti si sclavi, an cazul asta?

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Care este si acum: statul de plata si iluzia ca traiesti LIBER, sau cine stie - poate ca noi vom fi sclavii...

Sieglind:

--- Citat din: 07Marius din Noiembrie 28, 2012, 01:14:13 a.m. ---
Dimpotriva. Se fac eforturi f. mari ca robotii sa fie cat mai umani.
Se comercializeaza deja...
At 25 cm in height and weighing 1.5 kg, the robot "is almost a living being. It has the same activity as a living being, it has its own autonomy and conscience", he said.It also has a series of "basic needs, like nourishment and security, and other more advanced ones, like love, recognition, freedom and, above all, enjoying itself and getting along well".
In contrast to the available robots developed till date, its makeup does not consist of "a collection of limited actions or programmed responses. It's dynamic, it has its own life and, at times, it's unpredictable," said AISoy 1's designer.

The robot is capable of learning from experience and modifying "its behaviour, values and actions it can undertake at specific times," he said."If you take two AISoy 1's and leave them in two different families, within two months they will be totally different because they will have had different experiences," said Garcia. (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-07-30/news/27623571_1_first-robot-domestic-robot-spanish-firm)


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Acum, fără supărare, dacă ţie ţi se pare că asta se potriveşte cu reclama (sufletul comerţului, n'aşa?):  :D



It has the same activity as a living being, it has its own autonomy and conscience.

A naibii conştiinţa asta! (all-inclusive)  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AISoy1

mircea_p:

--- Citat din: 07Marius din Noiembrie 28, 2012, 01:14:13 a.m. ---

--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 27, 2012, 11:21:34 p.m. ---Care ar fi diferenta intre roboti si sclavi, an cazul asta?

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Care este si acum: statul de plata si iluzia ca traiesti LIBER, sau cine stie - poate ca noi vom fi sclavii...

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Si atunci care ar fi scopul? Dupa parerea ta.

In privinta competitiei dintre imaginatie si realitate, in domeniul inteligentei artificiale, imaginatia e inca mult inainte.
Vezi de exemplu "Intrebarea finala".
http://gawrylyta.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/isaac_20asimov_20-_20ultima_20intrebare.pdf
Si "Raspunsul" lui Fredric Brown (pe romaneste).
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2F193.230.235.141%2Fcarti%2FBeletristica%2FNesortate%2Ff%2FFredric%2520Brown%2FRaspunsul.doc&ei=C361UPmtF4aOygGf4YH4Cg&usg=AFQjCNFylqCQzLqYySamMhaKV0WGPbE3uQ&cad=rja
Dupa ce trecem de faza asta, putem spune ca realitatea a depasit imaginatia.  ;)

07Marius:

--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 28, 2012, 05:08:02 a.m. ---Si atunci care ar fi scopul? Dupa parerea ta.

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Ca intotdeauna scopul initial este bun. Pe parcurs se mai schimba lucrurile si apar cei care profita de cunostiintele acumulate si le utilizeaza in scopuri mai putin nobile. De la un robot sa zicem utilitar (gen chirurg) f. usor se poate ajunge la un robot utilitar gen "killer soldat" sau ptr. actiuni ce implica droguri, mafia etc. Probabil ca asta se va si intampla in viitorul relativ apropiat.


--- Citat din: mircea_p din Noiembrie 28, 2012, 05:08:02 a.m. ---In privinta competitiei dintre imaginatie si realitate, in domeniul inteligentei artificiale, imaginatia e inca mult inainte.
Dupa ce trecem de faza asta, putem spune ca realitatea a depasit imaginatia.  ;)

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JOHNNY MNEMONIC
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113481/
"Inside Johnny’s brain, a “wet-wired” memory chip has been implanted that allows him to interface with computer systems, and which gives him a set storage capacity of 80 gigabytes of data he can carry; overloading this set capacity will, of course, kill him little time. This last job will require him to upgrade his memory to 160 gigabytes, but force him to carry 320."

In anul 1995 era SF. Astazi total realizabil si fara a pune viata purtatorului in pericol. Nici macar nu ar fi nevoie de cabluri (ca si in film), Wi-Fi si totul se face curat fara conectori.
Cat timp a trecut de atunci...
Imaginatia este inainte intr-adevar, dar realitatea ne prinde din urma mai repede decat ne imaginam.

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